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Geo.
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« on: April 28, 2010, 07:16:59 AM »

I put this together for a diffrent foruw ,but it may be of intrest here too.

Hi All

I had a great time volunteering in the machine shops at Las Vegas and Phoenix
Seeing old friends and making new ones is always fun,
In talking with the Students and Mentors I went and opened my mouth and said I could put a small table top machine shop together for about $1500.00
Now I am happy to say my mouth is foot free!
The machines and tooling in the following list are not the “Top of the Line” but are of proven quality and I have either purchased or have personal experience with each tool listed and should provide a good starter shop for robotics or any other machine projects
(I converted the same mill to CNC about 2 years ago for less then $800.00)

Harbor Freight        (http://www.harborfreight.com)
1pc   Mini Mill (R8)        #44991-2VGA      $489.99
1pc   Mini Lathe 7x10”      #93212-2VGA         $399.99
1pc   Drill Press ½”         #38119-0VGA         $  59.99
1pc   Band Saw           #93762-1VGA         $199.99
1pc   Grinder 8”          #90022-0VGA         $  54.99
1pc    Drill Chuck (2mt)       #42340-2VGA         $    7.99
                        ST      $1212.94
CDCO  (http://www.cdcotools.com)
1pc    Mill Vise 4”          #21003         $   95.00
1pc    Clamp Kit          #24802         $   38.00
1set    Parallels          #37201         $   27.00
1pc   Drill Chuck          #25003         $   10.00
1pc    Arbor (5/8)          #21303         $     4.00
1pc    Edge finder          #60601         $     5.00
1pc    Wiggler         #60603         $     6.00
1set    End Mills         #45901         $   48.00
                        ST       $ 314.00
Enco     (http://www.use-enco.com
1set    Lathe tools          #383-4300         $   37.95
1set    R8 Collets         #231-4611         $   37.95
                         ST       $   75.90
TOTAL                         $1521.84

This is a very basic setup and will fit on a 3’x8’ table (band saw under)
Taxes and Shipping is not include
If there is an interest I can put together some other packages for people with a more space /  bigger budget
Please let me know what you would like to see
Have Fun
Geo.
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Gordon Clarke
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Gordon Clarke

« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2010, 11:27:52 AM »

Anyone expecting “Top of the Line” for a $1,500 total will probably also believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy  :-)
In good working condition is the main thing. Another good thing about starting up like that is, that as requirements grow, then items can be renewed one at a time. Probably even sold to make the "change" cheaper too  :wink:

There's (almost) nothing worse that paying top dollar for something never used  :roll:
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ghoulardi
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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2010, 01:03:34 PM »

Sounds good. But...  For beginning people you should really mention all the "little odds & ends" that really add up. I'm referring to things like allen wrenches, oil cans, tie down pieces, files, and the million other little things you don't even give much thought to. I just thought of a bunch of other things too but the list could go on forever.
  Just my .02.
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Gordon Clarke
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Gordon Clarke

« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2010, 02:17:18 PM »

ghoulardi, why don't you let the "beginning people" have a few of the "million other little things" that you've just thought about instead of leaving them hanging? If you can also give a price estimate that'd be great.

I can't help but think that any person willing to invest in a "$1500.00 Machine Shop" should have most of these "little things" or I doubt if they'd jump in at the deep end straight off.

What home with even the most useless DIY man (or woman), doesn't have at least a hammer, a few screwdrivers, wrenches, a couple of files and a few other basics? How many homes don't have a small oil can handy ? I'd say that if they don't have that then there is no way they'd be buying the stuff on the list.

I'm starting to realise why many would be hesitant about offering advice in here. I'd suggest ghoulardi, that you add to the list and put a positive spin on it instead of trying to put folk off. That was my dime's worth  :wink:

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notneccesarilyquick
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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2010, 08:54:57 PM »

I like that list so much I had to save it.  I'm not a machinist & I have a complete Channelock set on wheels, small Alllied wrench and socket set which folds up, complete set of files, all kinds of screw drivers and allen wrenches and even those star wrenches they now use for auto headlights for some reason, more of the same in Small's versions, Craftsman "Dremel tool" + one maybe from Harbor Freight with bobs and an antique oil can which I love.   :?
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Gordon Clarke
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Gordon Clarke

« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2010, 10:49:57 PM »

To follow in "notneccesarilyquick"'s (aka "fasterthanmost") footsteps  :-)  At Easter I visited my cousin and her husband in Glasgow (Scotland). Now it'd be hard to find two less technical folks than them, and I offered to fix a fault that a useless handyman had made while doing their kitchen.

I said that the problem was easily fixed, but that I'd need a few tools to do the job and was convinced they'd have nothing. I was speechless when she (my cousin) within minutes pulled out a pile of tools (hammers, saw, screwdrivers etc.) from a box in the garage.

Suffice to say that they had more than enough equipment for me to do the repair in just under 20 minutes and I'm still wondering why they had the tools in the first place.  :-o

I have a Swiss Army knife I'm never without (except in my pocket in airports), and it has two blades, two screw drivers, a pair of scissors, a bottle opener, a cork screw, a file, a toothpick and a pincette - and I've probably left out a couple. I don't think a day has gone bye without me having some use for at least one of those things.
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ghoulardi
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2010, 03:53:17 PM »

  Not tryin' to be a wise guy but I've run into a lot of people who have no clue. Take a look around at all the little "odds and ends in your own shop and figure out what you've spent on them over the years. Even if you had them before you started your shop you paid for them at some point. And besides how many people have things like t-nuts and studs already? Like I said, just my .02.
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notneccesarilyquick
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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2010, 07:18:14 PM »

You've run into a lot of people who have no clue or no tools?
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Gordon Clarke
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Gordon Clarke

« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2010, 10:54:05 PM »

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. I certainly will agree with you on one thing ghoulardi, you certainly aren’t “…. tryin' to be a wise guy ….”. I’m almost sure you think you are giving practical advice, but I doubt very much that what you write is read as such. Personally I’m reading it as criticism of a good idea and in no way helpful or inspiring. It’s rather like using sarcasm as a misguided conception of humor. Irony on the other hand can be funny when used against oneself.

The logic you invoke is like saying a person needs to be a top notch chef to make a meal. News flsh - it isn’t just done by having the edible ingredients – you also need cutlery, pots, pans, stove, oven and “millions of other stuff” before even getting started on the meal. To me all the “extras” you list is rather like the things that are a must in most homes where folk eat normally on a regular basis. At least the ones that don’t just live on raw meat, berries and roots.

I have an apparatus where t-nuts should be used, but I make do with ordinary hexagonal nuts I filed to fit the t-slot. Oh yea, I didn’t need to buy all my files, I’ve had most of them so long I might even have inherited them LOL – I’ve had most of them for so long I don’t even remember where they came from. God forbid I’ve borrowed them from neighbors and forgotten to return them. If/when I need a stud (or studs) I just go down to the local hardware store and buy a 3 foot length of threaded rod for a couple of dollars. It usually lasts a very long time.

There is usually a vast difference between the approach used depending whether you have a large company or just an amateur handyman. The first buys what is necessary for profit, the other what is necessary for basic needs. Some live in small apartments, others in 10 bedroom houses. Needs vary, as does the size of income.

I think it’s necessary to repeat – a person that doesn’t have basic everyday tools such as a hammer, screw drivers etc. isn’t going to suddenly decide to have a workshop, which I think is the main point in understanding what Geo wrote. Having a car doesn’t mean you have to set up a garage workshop at home, but to the mechanically interested it sure would be great to have and all the tools necessary would be bought as the need arises.

Instead of giving 2 cents worth, go for broke and spend a dollar  :wink: It might turn out to be an investment.

Can I expect a reply on my measurement question in another subject in this forum?  :?
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Geo.
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2010, 09:26:28 AM »

Hi All,
had to put in my .02
1.5k is not a lot to work with, one of the first reply I got was I should have included an indicator
please note that no measuring tool were listed, nor were wrenches or screwdrivers or even drills.
if you like I could put a list together for common hand tools?
(the lathe and the mill both come with small tool kits, allens included)
Ghoulardi, you are right, it's the little stuff that makes a shop workable
I don't want to think of how much I have tied up in tools,tooling, machines, and still adding almost daily

I have found that swapmeets (jumbles ?) and garage sales have the best buys,
penny's on the dollar (found the same lathe for $150.00 one time, almost new)
if you have the time

anyway there's .02 worth, thanks for your input everyone!
 Have fun!
Geo.

PS. "T" nuts are 8th on the list (and yes, they do fit the mill)
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ghoulardi
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2010, 12:21:05 PM »

  I've had real good luck on e-bay. (as long as you're not in a hurry)
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Ron
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2010, 09:49:39 PM »

Hi All,
had to put in my .02
1.5k is not a lot to work with, one of the first reply I got was I should have included an indicator
please note that no measuring tool were listed, nor were wrenches or screwdrivers or even drills.
if you like I could put a list together for common hand tools?
(the lathe and the mill both come with small tool kits, allens included)
Ghoulardi, you are right, it's the little stuff that makes a shop workable
I don't want to think of how much I have tied up in tools,tooling, machines, and still adding almost daily

I have found that swapmeets (jumbles ?) and garage sales have the best buys,
penny's on the dollar (found the same lathe for $150.00 one time, almost new)
if you have the time

anyway there's .02 worth, thanks for your input everyone!
 Have fun!
Geo.

PS. "T" nuts are 8th on the list (and yes, they do fit the mill)


Though some may have a dilemma (laughing or crying?) many have enough broad experience to stay calm and in control as concerns opinions. My opinion (sans emotion) is that you have put together a great list... for some.
Trying to attach intellectual ownership to such opinion is folly fit only for... help me with a verb or noun here.... tap tap tap..egotists?
I have been in this industry/hobby since 1955 and that is long enough to come to know that this is an "industry/hobby" not an epistemology worth publication or patent. Buying cheap is saving money for the hobbyist and may be throwing it away for the serious profit making tool maker. Why some seem to INSIST that there is a discreet digit to such an analog value  is beyond my ability to comprehend. People make decisions for themselves. Cheap tools from China are great for some and a waste of money and skill for others. Some people need let go of their "self" sometimes.
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v22osprey
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2010, 11:53:12 AM »

I bought that drill press a few months ago. It is reasonable quality all except for the chuck. Run out on the chuck that came with it was visibly poor. The Jacbob chuck taper was pretty goo though (runout in the tenths). So I bought a better chuck and I'm happy with it.

I have this set up in my shop right next to my mill and use it for small holes. Pretty happy with it.

Its on sale now for $49 at Harbor Freight.

V
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