Like we've been saying for years.. there is major shortage of Machinists.

[Carl]

If we would have had a "Volt" we would have been in fat city. We turned down millions because we could not produce product. We had no bodies to run the machines but we would have loved the option of hiring temps to do it.

Not a chance then and not a chance now.

[v22osprey]

Volt Tech is all over our factory. There are others too.

[JohnnyMachinist]

The idea that a true CNC machinist is a "button pusher" is insane. You need to combine more skills together than a typical Bridgeport-Man or prototype machinist. Now please understand me. I am of the breed of a machinist who started sandblasting, brazing, fixing broken things, learing from grumpy old white haired machinists, slowly and slowly learing more about precision grinding, manual machining, set-ups, tooling, etc etc. Started to learn CNC back in 1994 on decade old equipment. Was told by other machinists that I could never do it. Well, that was 16 years ago, and I own my own shop with ( paid for CNC mills and lathes. Still do manual machining & grinding everyday. But to me, you need to have manual machining background and a good deal of experience with tooling and fixturing, yes FIXTURING before you should ever be allowed to turn on any CNC machine tool. Let alone "think" you know how to fixture it, tool it and program the machine. I don't care who you are, You will crash a CNC badly if you do not know EXACTLY, and I stress the word EXACTLY what you are doing.

[JohnnyMachinist]

One more thing. If you gentlemen think that we are going back to the "Bridgeport Mill Line" of manufacturing, you are dreaming.
For those who don't know. The Bridgeport Mill Line was when shops/factories had tens, sometimes hundreds of Bridgeport Mills side by side almost as far as the eye could see set up in an operation line. The parts would go from one machine to the next completing each OP.

CNC is here to stay. It's best to learn it. I find even small jobs faster to make on a CNC. This way you can also make a few extras with ease. Manual machining has it's place. But if you think that manual wil be king again, you might as well start riding a horse to work.

[Ron]

The idea that a true CNC machinist is a "button pusher" is insane. You need to combine more skills together than a typical Bridgeport-Man or prototype machinist. Now please understand me. I am of the breed of a machinist who started sandblasting, brazing, fixing broken things, learing from grumpy old white haired machinists, slowly and slowly learing more about precision grinding, manual machining, set-ups, tooling, etc etc. Started to learn CNC back in 1994 on decade old equipment. Was told by other machinists that I could never do it. Well, that was 16 years ago, and I own my own shop with ( paid for CNC mills and lathes. Still do manual machining & grinding everyday. But to me, you need to have manual machining background and a good deal of experience with tooling and fixturing, yes FIXTURING before you should ever be allowed to turn on any CNC machine tool. Let alone "think" you know how to fixture it, tool it and program the machine. I don't care who you are, You will crash a CNC badly if you do not know EXACTLY, and I stress the word EXACTLY what you are doing.

You hit it on the head.
There are those who think a CNC machinist is a button pusher.
They can be!
and then the cant be too!
Just like manual machining there were people who could set up and run a turret lathe, or a Hardinge chucker or a screw machine... and there where those people who sat at the machine all day and just pulled the handles. No difference.. pull the handles or push the buttons. Most people cant put this in perspective.

It is easy for the marginal old timers to guffaw at you because they were the ones who did the setup operations of the old machines. Their problem is they think a CNC machine is set up and tooled by a computer also. You know that to be incorrect and so do I.

Cheers, machinist!

Ron

[Ron]

One more thing. If you gentlemen think that we are going back to the "Bridgeport Mill Line" of manufacturing, you are dreaming.
For those who don't know. The Bridgeport Mill Line was when shops/factories had tens, sometimes hundreds of Bridgeport Mills side by side almost as far as the eye could see set up in an operation line. The parts would go from one machine to the next completing each OP.

CNC is here to stay. It's best to learn it. I find even small jobs faster to make on a CNC. This way you can also make a few extras with ease. Manual machining has it's place. But if you think that manual wil be king again, you might as well start riding a horse to work.

I'm going to have to edify you here. No one is "going back" to anything. The CNC owns the high speed production environment. What manual machining owns is big iron. There is no way an owner of a 10 foot MIlwaulkee vertical lathe (which is paid for) is going to buy a two million Cinci CNC just because it is CNC.

That being said, you should ask me sometime how desperate companies are to find people to run the old big iron. It is manual. It is not CNC and in fact I doubt there is a CNC programmer who could even program them meaningfully to begin with. There will always be the ships propellers or the hydro generator impeller that has to be machined. Ask  geo...

These guys make twice the money you do.. they really do!

Ron

 

[Carl]

The idea that a true CNC machinist is a "button pusher" is insane. You need to combine more skills together than a typical Bridgeport-Man or prototype machinist. Now please understand me. I am of the breed of a machinist who started sandblasting, brazing, fixing broken things, learing from grumpy old white haired machinists, slowly and slowly learing more about precision grinding, manual machining, set-ups, tooling, etc etc. Started to learn CNC back in 1994 on decade old equipment. Was told by other machinists that I could never do it. Well, that was 16 years ago, and I own my own shop with ( paid for CNC mills and lathes. Still do manual machining & grinding everyday. But to me, you need to have manual machining background and a good deal of experience with tooling and fixturing, yes FIXTURING before you should ever be allowed to turn on any CNC machine tool. Let alone "think" you know how to fixture it, tool it and program the machine. I don't care who you are, You will crash a CNC badly if you do not know EXACTLY, and I stress the word EXACTLY what you are doing.

The idea that a CNC machinist could walk into my shop and make me money is equally absurd. I've hired too many "machinists" that were not. It is just not the same world. On the other hand I know a few CNC machinists who have had experience running my kind of machines in their past and they work out fine.

Look at at it this way. Can you pull a three ton forging off a truck, put it down on blocks, figure out how to qualify it, set it up, turn the surfaces, mill the flanges, sputter up the hard face, turn back down to size, Blanchard grind the flanges, and load iit back on the truck? That is what we call a machinist.

[jeofjingjeff]

Job growth in this occupation thus depends to a large extent on trends in manufacturing sector industries where these workers are mainly to be found, but also on the implementation of technological changes.  Job opportunities will come primarily and from positions vacated by retiring machinists and machining and tooling inspectors or by those who are promoted to positions.


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[billmaster]

Hello all, I just joined this forum and this is my first post.  This is an interesting forum and an interesting subject.  Being in machining since 1980, I have been through several rough spots in this field.  In the early 1980's I remember there was there was a serious downturn, and jobs were hard to find.  In the mid-1990's, same thing, aerospace collapsed and machinists (myself included) were laid off by the thousands.  And of course this latest "downturn" (more like a depression) was the worst of all.  I made the mistake of quitting my job in December 2008 after a dispute with my boss, thinking that I could take a few months off and find another job no problem.  Wrong!  Being a very proficient CNC machinist/programmer, this is usually the case, but in depression year 2009, nobody and I mean nobody was hiring--I have never seen a worse job market.  I paid the price for making the mistake of not having another job lined up before quitting my current job--jerk boss or not. 

By 2010 things were dramatically improving for machinists.  All of a sudden companies who wouldn't give you the time of day are now clamoring for us.  I still get calls from companies where I had applied at but was not hired, so obviously there is now a great need now for machinist/programmers, which is good news.  I try to keep a humble attitude but I am still a bit shook up from that awful year 2009.  It's good that there are now jobs, but I guess my point is that even with a "shortage" of machinists, I know from experience that the bottom can drop out at any time.

I don't mean to sound negative, especially in my first post, but are not these companies now themselves paying a price for lack of investing in their future by not having apprentice/training programs?  That's how I started, as an apprentice for an aerospace company in Burbank.  (I think that was the last formal apprentice program in this area, so I guess i was lucky.  The company bailed to Texas in 1993, and I didn't want to move there). Private training companies like NTMA are fine and do a good job, but there is nothing like a formal company-sponsored apprenticeship program to nurture along a trainee.

Now when companies really, really need to crank up production there are few qualified people around to choose from. When is this country going to get their head out of their ass and start getting serious training programs up and going full-blast?  The government obviously needs to be involved.  Every other country (i.e., our competitors) fund training programs, why can't the U.S.? 

 

[Ron]

well said